Beyond ADHD A Physicians Perspective Ep 14 with Decluttering Expert & Coach Rosemary Nichols

Rosemary Nichols: I have boxes of boxes in this storage area that I didn't see visually. That were just postponed decisions. Like I had many years of caregiving and I don't regret it for a second. I loved my family and I still love my family, but I just kept putting things to the side. That's really, when I dug deep and really had to deal with my own inability at times to create the system that worked for me.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Hi, welcome to Beyond ADHD, A Physician's Perspective podcast. I am your host, Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh. I'm a family medicine doc, with ADHD, practicing in a rural setting in Texas. I am a mother to two very energetic toddlers who are three and four years of age.

And in the past year, I have undergone radical transformation after discovering  ADHD coaching, and life-coaching. For the past decade, my typical day consisted of having 300 charts backlog, a graveyard of unfinished projects, and a lack of time awareness. I didn't realize that I was not filling my own cup. I was running on fumes, the last year I figured out the secret; learn to stay in your lane. So now my mission is to help others develop systems that tap into their zone of genius. So they too can reclaim their personal lives back like I have.

All right. I am so excited this week. We are talking with one of my star guest coaches in my program. So I am so thrilled to have her here. As you guys know, time is our most valuable asset. And so I'm so humbled that she's here today. Her name is. Rosemary Nichols. She is a woman with a mission. Her aim is to help individuals, especially those with ADHD, to overcome disorganization and create beauty and order in their environment and in their lives.

Using self-compassion approach, her background is in education and she's been a special ed teacher, a health educator. A speaker and a trainer, a child advocate in a crisis center, a career development specialist. And now she is being a blessing to many, many people around her by being a professional organizer and an ADHD, decluttering coach.

You probably are starting to put the picture together. She's the Jack of all trades. Right? And she is one of ours. She has ADHD herself. So that's quite, she's probably going to be a life learner. Like most of us are. So I'm very excited that she's here today. Rosemary. Do you mind sharing some of the circumstances around your diagnosis of ADHD?

Rosemary Nichols: Absolutely not and as you, as I explain it, you'll see that it could help someone out there. And why I say that is that my journey to being diagnosed is rather humorous in one respectand the fact that I spent 22 years as a special education teacher in the classroom. And I taught students that had learning disabilities, behavioral issues, developmental delays, and ADHD.

In the beginning of my career, we called it hyperactivity. But as time went on, we called it ADHD without realizing that I had ADHD. And I think part of that story is that along the way, as both a student and then as a teacher, I kind of unconsciously develop these what I, what we call the special ed compensatory strategies that helped me with some of the challenges.

But yeah, I was still plagued with self doubt and frustration when it came to time management procrastination, keeping my home, you know, in good order. And there was always something nagging at me that said, why can't you be with like other people who have their act together? I mean, I must have read countless books on organization and time management, but back then, let me just tell you.

The books that were written were written by people that didn't need help in those areas because it came naturally to them. So it was only after I lost my mother, I was 57 and I was working as a manager in an educational agency that I just couldn't shake the feeling that there must be some reason why I was having such a hard time focusing beside, you know, the normal grief. And so through some reading and exploring, I sought the help of my counselor at the time, and she referred me to a psychiatrist within her practice to discuss this issue of ADHD. And so I taught, I was in the first session with the psychiatrist and he asked me a few questions, but one of his main question was, did you have, a problem or struggle learning how to read when you were a child or reading in general?

And I said, no. And he said, oh, well then you don't probably have ADHD. And I was okay. So he begrudgingly. Agreed to give me some medication to see if it helped, but I just didn't feel comfortable working with somebody who didn't believe that I had ADHD when at that point, my inner voice and my counselor both knew, you know, this is something that makes so many things in my life makes sense. So I got another recommendation from the same counselor for a different psychiatrist who is more holistic in his approach. And that proved to be a better match for me. So I do suggest advocating for yourself because this is my opinion, but I feel like ADHD. is a spectrum just like autism.

And some of us are on one point of that spectrum. And some of us are another point. And just because we're not on an extreme point of the spectrum, first of all, it doesn't mean that we don't have ADHD, but it also means that the issues and challenges don't affect us just as great. And the other thing I do want to add is, I've listened to some of your podcasts and people talk about, you know, especially the idea of female students.

And sometimes we look different than male students have ADHD. So looking back, school career, I didn't get into a lot of problems at school. I do remember in third grade though, being told, being talked to because. Talk too much, which is not a shock to people with ADHD or to my friends, but it was interesting.

So in school, I didn't have a lot of behavior problems, but at home I was always punished for talking back to my parents. And I just look back at that now and say, well, the impulsivity. As someone with ADHD was always there from the time I was little. So that's kind of my journey to, to being diagnosed and to start dealing with how to deal with this.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: And how old were you when you got diagnosed? Were you in the middle age or towards, later on or was. It wasn't in childhood, right? You said.

Rosemary Nichols: No, no, no. I was 57 years old.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Oh my God.

Rosemary Nichols: That's what I'm saying. And what I think is I always have a sense of you or the fact that I was a special education teacher and it took me that long.

Now let me just tell you. Maybe about 10 years before that, when I was working in this educational agency and I was surrounded by people, you know, a lot of people that dealt with special education, I would say jokingly, oh yeah, I'm a little ADHD, but it didn't really absorb into me until that issue with losing my mom.

And it just felt more dramatic. And then it was just. Wow. I can't focus many. I should look into that. And then I remember very clearly the day that I was in Barnes and noble with my sister and I had picked up this book and this book about ADHD, it described the different types of personalities. And I looked at the one that sounded like me, and I read it to my sister and she just like.

Their eyes and she's like, yeah, that describes you to a T. So, so I just think everyone's journey is a little different. Do you know what I mean? And my journey of being diagnosed officially late in life. It gives me more empathy for people that again, have been struggling with this without a label and also without the knowledge of how our minds work and how we tick, because that's the beginning.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: I think of dealing with it effectively. Yes. I think you're a hundred percent correct. . And the fact that not until somebody else kind of recognizes it, right? Because like you said, we've been doing what we've been doing for years, and this is the norm for us. Right. And we look around and sometimes our family's a little bit like us.

So we consider that to still be the norm for us. And not until somebody else outside of you can maybe pinpoint something and then you're like, oh, well maybe. And then, like you said, opening that curiosity. And then finally, when you do get the diagnosis, it's understanding how you tick, like you said, because for me, I was sitting in shame.

Like I didn't want to talk about it. I didn't want to share it with anybody because in my mind it meant I could no longer be perfect student. I could no longer be like the role model that everybody was looking up to because I felt like I couldn't be perfect. Right? And so for some reason, my brain was equating perfect with worthiness, which obviously now I've come to understand that some females and sometimes people with ADHD, like they have this imposter syndrome and they don't realize that their thoughts are not really them, like, it's something in there that is telling them, you're too loud or too slow or too, whatever. But it's not really the truth. It's just an opinion that our brain is there to try to protect us from like messing something up or being fired or whatever. Right. For getting the keys and like locking ourselves out of our house or like something like that.

Like you just said, you tap into curiosity, you start to see, huh? Maybe there's a different way of thinking that I'm having, and it's not necessarily a bad thing that I'm thinking differently. So tell me now that you have the diagnosis, do you feel like it ever impacted your life? Like, do you feel like it impacted your family or your friends around you?

Like, because you had ADHD.

Rosemary Nichols: Yes. Yes. Yes. But also I also will temper that with saying that it I'm sure it still affects anyone who knows me, but to a lesser degree because of my knowledge and my strategies, but yes, chronic lateness. Which has dramatically improved doesn't mean I don't run late sometimes, but I mean, chronic lateness, like, oh yeah, Rosemary.

She's never going to be here on time. Impulsiveness. Sometimes interrupting people when they speak, oh my God. I became so aware of that. It was so ingrained in me. It was like, I felt like I had to add something in at that point, because maybe I wouldn't remember it, or many times it came from a place of supporting the person, like acknowledging them.

Oh yeah. I understand what you're saying. I know what that means. But I really had to really consciously work on listening to people until they finished and then making a comment also at times, not listening as carefully as I could to someone, not because I didn't want to, but because my mind was like, And about all these things.

Like they would say something and my mind would go to a lot of different places. And this is one, the last one I feel definitely, I saw it maybe more as my manager and education, but over committing to projects and events, and then not following through or getting too many things on my plate at the one time, because for those of us, with ADHD, we have a lot of interest and we have a lot of, you know, that's how we, we sort of get excited because like, oh, something new, you know?

 And so I feel like the knowledge of those things, and it came at different points in my life, really supported me working on these. So. I was less affecting those around me in a negative way, but I always say to that, you know, I am like kind of gregarious. I'm a talker. That's going to be who I am. I just need to temper that in a way so that I'm respectful of the people that are around.

So, yeah, definitely it did impact people and you know what my mother passed away, but my God, she would be laughing so hard now. When we would look, if we were looking back at my child to through the lens of ADHD, because she was a bright person, but back then, there really wasn't a lot of knowledge about it and she would go, I know she goes something like, oh my God, that's why you never could.

You know, stop talking and just say, yes, mom, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I had friends, we were a little, what do you call get together with people that grew up in my neighborhood? And I said to this one woman who lived next door to us, I said, oh yeah, I was always being punished, you know, sent to my room. I said, but you know, really?

How often did that happen? A lot. She's like, oh yeah, it happened a lot. Just said, yep. Come over. Can Rosemary come out to play? Nope. She's up in her room. She can't come out. So, it's always humorous to look back at things in retrospect.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: So tell me, how did you end up like using your ADHD to help. You know, with this successful business of yours, that now you are helping other people. So, you know, sometimes clutter is an area that is so shameful for us. We, we keep telling ourselves, I should know better. I should be a better blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Either with paper or with stuff that we don't make decisions.

We just have a pile of somewhere, either laundry or different things. And I think you shared at the beginning that it was after your mom passed away, but how are you able to be such a successful coach now with decluttering? Tell us about that.

Rosemary Nichols: You know, I think part of it is I just want to reinforce something that you mentioned too.

I had a lot of shame about the fact that I could kind of go to my job and sort of manage it. It didn't mean that I didn't have struggles, but then I come home and it's like, I'm an intelligent person. Why can't I keep my house neat? Why do I create clutter? You know, it was really, I was never a happy, messy person to, you know, what I'm saying are people that are like that.

They don't mind the mess. It doesn't bother them. They don't feel ashamed of it, but I was never one of those people. But I think part of my journey in this, aspect that we're talking about was after my mother passed away, but then a few years later, my dad passed away. But a few years later after that, my younger sister. I was very, very close to passed away and I was the executress of her estate. So I needed to go through her condo, which was originally my parent's condo. So there was still some remnants of my parents' possessions, but not a lot. I had to go through it, you know, to clear it out and put it on the market and sell it.

And. Oh, my God, she loved to shop. She loved gadgets and she had a lot of stuff like people that knew her and knew that she had a lot of stuff, had no idea how much stuff came out of that. So I really focused on that process and I had help from friends and I have to say at one point I hired a professional organizer for like the last month or two, because.

It was such an emotional, a loss for me that I don't think I would have been able to do it as successfully. If I had my best friend or her best friend helping me, I needed somebody who was compassionate, but they didn't know my sister. So what I say is I went through that process. We, you know, got it on the market.

And then I came back to my point. And I have a three-level condo. And I realized, especially in my basement, which is a combination of an office and a family area TV, and that kind of thing. I had boxes of boxes in this storage area that I didn't see visually. That were just postponed decisions. Like I had many years of caregiving and I don't regret it for a second.

I loved my family and I still love my family, but I just kept putting things to the side. So that's really, that's really when I dug deep and really had to deal with my own inability at times to create the system that worked for me. So why I feel that I can be successful and am successful with the clients that I serve is that first of all, I have experienced some moral different, but some of what they've experienced and I have found success in creating order and beauty and systems that work for me, for me as an individual.

And I think that lays the foundation for trust. An openness to experiment with me to finding the strategies that work for them. And many times it isn't just me saying, try this. It's a collaborative process where we come up with a strategy together. And I also think that my nature. I love to be creative and inventive, and also both as my experience as a special education teacher, but just general.

I love to problem solve. And that really helps me in customizing strategies that work for the clients uniqueness.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: So then tell me a little bit about how are clients working with you. Are you going to their house? Are you doing virtual? How have you done it or what are you currently doing? I know the pandemic has obviously caused us all to think very creatively nowadays.

How are you doing your thing?

Rosemary Nichols: Primarily working with people virtually, to be honest, I have over the course of the last year, worked with some close family and friends that are like in my pod type of thing, but I really, you know, it's not just about my safety. It's about other people's safety. And, you know, it's like what they say when one door closes another opens, I'm really finding that when you help somebody virtually it really reinforces them developing the skills and the knowledge to continue to do it when you're not around or when you finish your work with them.

So I actually have been pleasantly surprised with the changes that I've seen people making. And even from, I would say from session to session, do you know what I mean? Starting out with that total overwhelm and where do I begin to seeing the pieces that can get them to where they want to go? So yeah, primarily virtually at the moment I do.

I do want to start developing, some online courses and possibly a podcast, because I feel like that can reach more people than just my one-on-one clients. As you probably know, from the work that you do.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah, that's great. You know, I was a teacher myself, even though it was, I guess, for a short time before I went into medical school.

But I feel like as a physician, you're kind of still a teacher you're still kind of still teaching them different things about their health. And now with this coaching program that I have, it's like, you're still kind of a teacher in a way. So that ability, like you said, can help us to connect with different individuals and not, not make it mean anything if they're just think a little bit different than us, because that's like you said, it's a spectrum, right?

So learning how to communicate is so helpful. And then being able to, like you said, you can't do it for them. Like you're there to be a guide or a coach or whatever, but you cannot run the marathon for them. This way, like you said, you're empowering them to create their system based on what their needs are and implementing them.

And then it is a privilege to be able to see our clients or our friends take into account ways to invest in themselves and help if they feel like that's something that is important for them, right. It begins with an intention. So, how do you feel like you're making a difference in the world? I mean, to me, that's obvious you're helping people get empowered, but how do you see this to be something that is front and center?

I think you kind of already shared with me with four, even asked a question about what your goals are and the next year you were talking about setting up courses and stuff.

Rosemary Nichols: Well, you know, I have to say looking back, I don't think when I was younger, I thought of it as consciously, but I am just the type of person that I need to be in service to other people.

I mean, that connects to my work with students and it's not to put down somebody in the business world. That's just working on a specific project. I just need to be of service to people. But I also want to use my creative nature. And I have to say that even when I began as a special education teacher and this was a while ago, so it was a little bit, it was less programmed and prescriptive in the sense that if the principal start looking into your room and he knew that you could control the kids.

They closed the door and you could, you've got the objectives done, but you could be very, very creative. It's a little bit different in education now. So I think that's why it was a good match for me at the time. But really at the moment I specifically feel like how I can help, make a difference is continuing my work, helping and supporting individuals.

Especially women with ADHD to lead better lives, to support them in their decluttering and organizing and setting up an implementing systems so that they can lead their best lives. And with the energy that was previously spent on self criticism and doubt, it can now be focused on their dreams and aspiration.

And as I mentioned, I really have been thinking that, this year I really would like to be able to do. To a larger amount of people. And that might be through, developing some online courses or programs and maybe even creating a podcast like you have.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: And I mean, now you're already coaching my group, right?

Like you're one of my guests coaches. So you already part of a group and you're already obviously doing a really good job at leading the class. Now, can you tell us a little bit. About the, the clutter bugs. I know it, that's probably going to take a whole thing and itself. Can you just give us like a minute explanation of what that means and like how that is just one more way of triggering your personality type, right.

Rosemary Nichols: And, what it is is what, uh, Dan is referring to. Is there as a professional organizer, one of my favorites, whose name is Cass. Her website is clutter bug dot, I think M E that's how it is. When I got exposed to her, I was so refreshed by the fact that she differentiated between people that look at organization in different ways, because maybe from my background as a special education teacher, I mean, one size does not fit all.

So she created this system, which is kind of adorable. It's called clutter bugs and there are four different types of clutter bugs. There is a butterfly. Butterfly is somebody who likes in their environments, visual abundance, but organizational simplicity, there is a lady bug and that is someone who likes visual simplicity.

They like things hidden. They don't want to see everything out and they also want organizational simplicity. They don't want complicated system. Then there's also a bee and that is the person. To make a generalization. It could be the person who looks like they are naturally organized. They have visual abundance and they have lots of detail in their organization.

And then there's the cricket and that's the person who they liked the visual simplicity. But within that, they like the organizational abundance like, they want things maybe hidden from site, but within that, they want a very detailed approach. So what I do with my clients is I have them take the quiz, which is on her website.

It's like a five minute quiz. And to me, it's just a starting point. It's not like, I don't think any system is black and white and everyone doesn't fit into one bucket perfectly, but it just gives me an idea of. Kind of the way their mind works related to organization. That's why I think some of the approaches that just take a sort of single approach don't necessarily work because unless you're that type of person who wants that type of organization, you're going to try to make yourself into that kind of person or force yourself into systems that are just not going to work for you.

Yeah. So, yeah, and I just also feel like for myself, I'm a quote butterfly, but there are areas like with my paper and maybe it's because I'm an educator, I'm information is important to me. I like a more detailed system. There were in other areas. I just want a simpler system. So we were, this is a starting point that we work from.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. And so that's really good that, you know, you're able to go do a whole class on that and then explain to each person how their stuff might be different from the, like their way of organizing is different from their children's or their significant other or their partner. Right. And so that's why sometimes we get into ourselves into trouble because in your mind you want to organize it one way and then their mind, they want to do it another, and then y'all can sometimes clash.

And that's where it's so beautiful when you come in and you're like, well, duh, he's not trying to sabotage you. That's just the way his brain thinks. Right. It's so good with that.. Rosemary. Well, I am so glad that you came today. Can you tell us how it, where people can find you?

Rosemary Nichols: Sure they can go to my website, which is Rosemarynichols.com. And that's spelled R O S E M a R Y N I C H O L s.com. Or they can email me and it's very simply rosemary@rosemarynichols.com.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Awesome. Thank you so much. Now, if you could give us just one takeaway point or one thing that you want people to like walk away with today, what would it be?

Rosemary Nichols: It would be that to ask for help or support is a sign of strength, not a sign of weakness.

And understanding your ADHD and how it affects you is the first step to creating a life that truly works for you. And again, I am so passionate about practicing self-compassion because it will make this journey as someone with ADHD so much easier and so much joyful and more, I mean, more having more joy in the.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Awesome. Well, I think you stated it beautifully having self-compassion and choosing joy instead of overwhelm is the key. Right? And like you said, asking for help because your sown of genius. Might not be somebody else's zone of genius and vice versa. So why not use each other's gifts to make sure that, you know, the universe supports you, right.

Why not? Awesome. Well, thank you so much again for coming. I know time is your most valuable asset and I am very humbled that you decided to invest your time in us and all our students who are wanting to be less cluttered.

Rosemary Nichols: So, well, I just wanted to say, Diana, it was a pleasure talking to you this afternoon, and I greatly admire the work that you're doing as a physician on the frontline, in the pandemic, but also.

As a coach and a mentor to physicians who have ADHD, because so many of us look at ourselves as we're functioning professionals, why can't certain areas of our life work for us. And I say it from the bottom of my heart, but knowing you. Continually inspires me. So thanks so much. I really appreciate.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Thank you. Well, they say you are the average of your five people, so your network really gives you your net worth and you know, you've been, you helped me declutter my house. So I had to bring people and share my goods with them too. Right. So. All right. Well, thank you so much again.

Rosemary Nichols: Thanks so much, Diana. Have a great day. Thanks so much for this time.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: As someone who understands that time is your most valuable asset, I am so honored that you have shared your time with me. Please click the subscribe. And join my Facebook Group: Beyond ADHD A Physician's Perspective so that you never miss an opportunity to create time at will. Do share this podcast with your friends. So they too can learn to live life and stay in their own lane.

 

Ways to connect with Rosemary Nichols:

W: rosemarynichols.com

E: rosemary@rosemarynichols.com