Beyond ADHD A Physicians Perspective Ep 6 with Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer (Pediatric Resident based in New Hampshire)

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer is a pediatrician in Concord, New Hampshire, she has 2 kids and a proud mom to her fur babies. Join as today as she shares her wins and overcoming challenges. 

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: The, definitely the talking it out was a big part. And, um, I was, I feel very fortunate. The group that I was with and the attendings that I had, and a lot of hands-on learning, which made a huge difference in comparison to just having to read it out of a book

 

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Hi, welcome to beyond ADHD, a physician's perspective podcast. I am your host, Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh. I'm a family medicine doc, with ADHD, practicing in a rural setting in Texas. I am a mother to two very energetic toddlers for three and four years of age.

 

And in the past year, I have undergone radical transformation after discovery, ADHD coaching, and life-coaching. For the past decade, my typical day consisted of having 300 charts, backlog, a graveyard of unfinished. And a lack of time awareness. I didn't realize that I was not filling my own cup. I was running on fumes the last year I figured out the secret; learn to stay in your lane. So now my mission is to help others develop systems that tap into their zone of genius. So they too can reclaim their personal lives back. Like I have.

 

So as we know ADHD, is in depth, it's just going to show up in different people, but it's going to affect us sometimes the same, sometimes a little different.

So I created this podcast to bring awareness that ADHD is a lifelong disease and I will be sharing with you interviews with many great physicians and some of them have asked to remain anonymous. And their name has been changed, but some have said, they're cool with telling us who they are and what they're all about.

So we are super excited about that. So we're going to share their wins and their challenges, and some tips on how ADHD can be a gift that can be unwrapped if you just know how to handle it. Right. So my aim is to stop the mental stigma that is associated with this condition. When most people think of ADHD, sometimes we just automatically think of a hyperactive boy running around.

Maybe with a lot of energy that we wish we could bottle. They are pretty smart. And sometimes we don't realize that an adult mother, a teacher, a physician can also have it. And so that's what we're here to talk about today. And before I go further, Give you the awesome speaker that we have today. I have to just give a small little disclosure while me and my guests are medical physicians.

We are not your medical physician. So the advice that we share here is not meant to substitute any of the advice or treatment that you are receiving from your own physician therapist or coach. In addition, anything that you hear here is not representing any of our employers or hospitals or any particular healthcare systems or organizations who that was a handful.

I just had to make my lawyer happy. So here we go. We got that out of the way. So today I have the pleasure of speaking with a very special person. Very excited about it. Her name is Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer and she grew up in New York and she went to the American University of Antigua College of Medicine.

And then she went to Crozer-Chester Medical Center for her pediatric residency in Pennsylvania. And now she is practicing in New Hampshire and she is married has 2 kids and lots of fur kiddos and she loves the New York Yankees and she's actually coaching her son's baseball team. So exciting.

All right. So here we go, Dr. Brittney, tell us all about you. How are you this morning?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Good. I'm great. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Awesome. Tell me, we all want to know what were the circumstances that led to your ADHD diagnosis? Did you suspect anything yourself when you tell us the story?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: So mostly when I was a teenager, I did feel like something was just off and I didn't know what it was. I honestly did not know much about it, hyperfocus, hyperactivity, any of those types of things at the time, I feel like it was looked at very differently than it is now. And much more recently it's been know a lot more.

I would notice that, I could study for a test. I could read something and I knew I had read it. I had done some highlighting and then I would go back and look at it and was just not remembering what I had read. And there were certain subjects like math that I just got and did well in. And it didn't take a lot of effort.

There were things then like reading English, language, reading comprehension was the big thing. Like I said, that I could read through and it just, it felt fortress. You know, doing the passages where you had to answer the questions afterwards. I remember as a kid crying about this and just how stressful and frustrating it was.

And that's kind of funny because I had talked with my dad about it and the frustration. And it turns out years later that he also has ADHD, but we didn't know at the time. And so he told me that that's normal and that's how people feel about reading comprehension. And so, like I said, I had gone to my physician.

Well, you've gotten this far and you've done well, so just work harder. And so I took that as, okay. Then I just got to work harder. This must be me that, and I graduated from a high school. I did have a tutor for a verbal, for my SATs, because that was just so difficult for me. And he didn't know why. And even with that, it was okay.

It wasn't great. And then went onto college and struggled in certain areas that require that with the memory piece there and other subjects where were perfectly fine and required, very little effort. And then I, I did. Okay. You know, I always did well enough to, to keep going, but, I had a lot of trouble with my.

And a big part of that is the things that required longer studying longer memory were very difficult. And so I'd gone there, which I was grateful for. I loved my experience. I learned a lot, a lot of hands on experience and, um, and then when it came time for my step one exam, the first part of the boards and was having difficulty with that.

And just prior to then my dad, had been diagnosed with ADHD. And so they had mentioned in passing about what was going on with me. And so I met with a psychiatrist and spoke with them and they had seen some signs while we were talking and they sent me for official testing. And so I had the testing done, and this was in my mid twenties now.

And I remember, in a nice way, the psychologist who had done the testing kind of laughed, and I have this done because. It was, it was pretty bad. The significance of the ADHD from the diagnosis was definitely obvious. And so from there, I, we talked about medication and we talked about, some management at the time and I had tried the medication and then was able to sign up and take the board exam again and did really well with it.

And it just felt so different to sitting there for that all day exam on the medication. Versus not where, you know, towards the end of the day without it, I just wanted to be done. I needed to get up, but it was like painful to sit there any longer. And then with the medicine. It felt okay. And it was amazing to me that that's how other people felt naturally.

Right. And so I tell people, even now, like I can pair the day of the diagnosis and just that affirmation of knowing that I wasn't stupid. And there was something going on up there it's with the wedding day with the, having the kids day to day changed.

Yeah. So, you know, it's, I guess at that time, sometimes we don't, we didn't realize how genetic it can be.

Right. And so I remember when I myself got diagnosed, like it was, I wasn't sure if I was just anxious because of, you know, your, I got diagnosed in medical school. So I wasn't sure if it was, cause I'm just putting all this pressure and wanting to do so well. And then you don't or your grades, like you said, do not reflect how much effort you're putting into what you're doing. Right. And like you said, it can be so frustrating and irritating cause you keep questioning yourself and your, at least for me, I would question my self worth and I would wonder why can not just do it. I'm sitting here, I'm trying, but it's so frustrating.

And, and you know, you, you had the opportunity as a teenager to get the diagnosis, but unfortunately they said you're doing well enough. Right. But they didn't realize at the expense of how much effort. Put forth to be able to do what you were so passionate about. Right. And I think this is what makes and breaks people, you know, were you an athlete at all or did you do dancing or anything in, in high school or in college?

Actually both. I had done dance like growing up and then I got into softball and played from when I was about six until I was in like middle of high school time until I was 16. And I had gotten injured, so I had stopped, but then I got back into dance and did that through college and medical school too.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah.

So, you know, it wasn't until like maybe the last year that when I finally started to like, get curious after having ignored my diagnosis, I read that book ADHD 2.0. And it talked about how females tend to be under diagnosed. And once we are diagnosed sometimes undertreated and they say is. Uh, we tend to do things that UN unaware, like it's helping us like exercise.

And so sometimes that's kind of healthy, but sometimes like some other people unfortunately end up using drugs or other things that are not as healthy because they don't realize that that's how sometimes people use food. You know, they don't realize that that's a dopamine. That is increasing our capacity to be able to try to semi function.

And so you were probably speaking , it sounds like you were using that energy from exercising to try to get it better. Did you get any tutors during college or no?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: No, not at all. It's just discipline at the library studying a lot.

But the talking it out and discussing what we needed to learn actually made a, bit of a difference. And, the type of learner that I was, without even realizing it. I guess why I was doing it or what I was doing at four. Yeah. We made a big difference.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. So that's exactly also how I feel like I ended up learning stuff. I was just as frustrated, like reading paragraphs and paragraphs. And I was like, what, what, like. But you go back and do it again and again, but when you would talk to somebody about it, all of a sudden to be able to, you grasped it a little bit longer, to be able to like put it into sentences or them telling it back to you, and that made a difference.

So sometimes did you notice that, like if you had a written exam that was like, you could explain your answer versus a multiple choice, that was that a little bit easier for you or if you had like a presentation or how did you do with those type of tests?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: So it depends on what it was sometimes. Honestly, just a quick answer was better because I, I found that keeping all of my thoughts in order was very difficult. So getting them out in a way that was easy for others to understand.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Great

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Even remembering in residency and presenting, you know, the patients that we were talking about and being told by a wonderful attending, you know, just tell it like a story and thinking, well, that's really hard to do my stories, go all over the place.

And I think, you know, having a lot of thoughts and, and trying to organize them into something that flows well is something else that was really difficult.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. So how did you do it? Like in residency you were taking meds then?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Yes. For most of it, actually, I did stop when I had gotten pregnant with my son, which was the beginning of intern year.

1. And, oh yeah, when we do things we do all whole bunch of the time we had gotten married and started, started residency and then had gotten pregnant. And so I went intern year without completely. And then my second year I wanted to breastfeed. That was something that was really important to me. And I feel like part of it too is, is knowing I'm in control.

Different things. And that helps me. And so that was something I wanted to do to help me feel in control, I guess. And I knew it was important to me. So a lot of my second year, actually, I hadn't died there because at that time, and I know things are a bit different now, but I was told that I definitely could not be on medications for either pregnancy or for nursing.

I was studying for a first step three throughout there. So once in a while I would take the medication, but, but usually not. And, uh, it wasn't until my third year that I did. And. But then I had gone for not too long after that. And so stopped again.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. So I know life happens and that's the thing, right? Like you just go with it. So what strategies did you find, like you were able to implement during your first and second and third year? Because, uh, you know, The knowledge that was there at that time. And the fact that, well, you made a personal choice, which was a good one. And did you keep doing what you did and, uh, like just talking it out with other people, did you learn a way to like visualize it?

Did you learn to tell stories? How did you, how did you do it? What strategies did you use at that point?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: The, definitely the talking it out was a big part. And, um, I was, I feel very fortunate. The group that I was with and the attendings that I had, and a lot of hands-on learning, which made a huge difference in comparison to just having to read it out of a book and, and try to imagine that real life experience, it's a lot easier.

It's, it's maybe more exciting and, and just the way it works differently than just reading it out of a book, but it's, it's good to my husband's really supportive. I was diagnosed after we had started dating. So he was always supportive and I could go to him and say, listen, I need to read this. I need to remember this.

It's really important. Can you just listen to me, talk about this or talk about it with me or I'd make flashcards and he'd help me go through them or just big poster boards or whatever it was. You know, any tasks I knew I could go to him too and ask for his assistance with it. And he was always there for that, which was right.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. That's really, that's really good to have a support system and to feel like you could be yourself, right? Like that's the beauty of it. Not feeling like you have to feel, you know, less of or anything like that. Right. How do you think, like your diagnosis might've impact like those people around you, either like your family, your friends, or any of your patients, like, do you think it made a difference? Like, did you, did, what do you think happened?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: So I think it in the different areas like that, there's definitely been a, a difference in how it's had an impact. Patient-wise I try to use it as a helpful tool. And especially when there's behavioral concerns or learning concerns or anything like that, I try to keep in mind how my experience was with my physician and not say, oh, you're all right, you're your bed just work harder. But to listen and, and realize that individuals. And then of course the parents as being in pediatrics, know that person best. And if they're saying something's wrong, something's wrong. And so talking it out and trying to figure it out and, and letting them know too.

I have ADHD because I've had some that have verbalized or have shown that they're worried about this diagnosis and what, how this will impact them and what effect it might have on their future and telling them that their future is not over. In fact, it's maybe even easier to get to where they want to now, because they've been working extra hard and struggling potentially.

And so to provide encouragement and say, you know, I have this too, and I'm feeling. It's okay. You can do anything that you want to do. Anything is possible, you know, so I try to be open and honest there and provide support in different ways. And then with my own family, I think it's, it's been a great thing because we all have our own quirks and our personality traits.

And, um, I've certainly gotten to know myself. And then, like I said, my husband's wonderful. He's gotten to know me very well over the time too. And sometime can anticipate something that may be tougher for me before I even do. But knowing the scenarios that could be more troublesome for myself, kind of preparing for that or, or just, you know, if I get stressed out over something, he knows why, and we don't have trouble because of it.

I think that's been very helpful there with, with marriage and then with my own kids, my son was diagnosed with ADHD probably a couple months ago. And it's something that we've seen over the last couple of years and we've kept an eye on and we had agreed my husband and I that once we got to a point that it might be causing some difficulty, we certainly didn't want him to get to the point that.

And that was my big fear was that he would not enjoy school or learning or would get frustrated with himself. And I didn't want him to feel that like I did. And so as soon as we got to that point, we had the testing done and, and so he had started medication and just even seeing the change in him and the change in how he feels about himself too.

He's six. Like, it just, it breaks your heart, but I'm so glad now. And that's been, I feel like having my diagnosis has helped him so that he won't have those years of struggling as well. And then just relationship wise with friends and, and so forth, you know, we go, we go way back to before diagnosis time. And so they just, they know me.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: And it's so good. Like you said, to have that diagnosis and to have that awareness, not just like you said for yourself, but like, to be able to be everything for your kid. Right. And to advocate, and to also, like you just said, be able to. To the parents of our patients when they do get a diagnosis and take that extra step to not just say, oh, it's just anxiety or it's just depression, or they're just being a kid or, oh, they're just stressed.

Right? Because sometimes as we now know, all those things could correlate and sometimes they can exist at the same time. And sometimes. Just ADHD, but they're still frustrated that it's making them depressed. Right. And so it's so good to have that insight. And like you said, now, be able to channel it and be aware that this is normal in the sense that it's genetic and how can we, uh, work with it. Right? Instead of against it. And so that you could support, have you come across any like resources to help yourself or to help your, your kid, uh, or any of your patients that you think that people should really know about?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Their habits, some books that are talked about and some other resources, there's some research that's going on too. I think the thing that's most helpful have been these stories or a little bit of research explaining because everyone's different. And I, I usually explain ADHD diagnosis similarly to an autism diagnosis in that it's very much a spectrum of how people feel and how people will react in certain situations.

And we're not all the same by any means what you may see in one person. You may not see another person with the same diagnosis. Doesn't mean, one of them doesn't have it, it, they do. It's just, there's a range in how you feel and how it affects you. There's also a huge range in what will help and, you know, so kind of getting to know yourself over time.

And so I always tell people to be patient with yourselves and, and, you know, over time this will will get better too, but certainly counseling and someone who is experienced with the diagnosis can be very helpful to help point those out. Um and then tools for those particular concerns. But just for myself, reading more about the diagnosis, talking with others in a similar scenario has been helpful too.

And then giving some of those resources, like to my husband to read or to those close to me to read so that they can see, you know, like if I go into a crowded supermarket on the weekend, I am stressed out. So stressed. And from that I can, you know, a shorter fuse. Kind of all over the place and distracted, and that's not, you know, in a bad mood or anything like that.

That's just how I feel because of so much stimulation going on around me. But someone else may feel fine with that. But seeing and reading different things that. So many scenarios and how someone may react has been so helpful in, uh, in showing that it can be with a diagnosis too. And not just, you know, me being a pain in the tush.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yes. I know what you mean now. How are you with time? Like some of us, he attempt to like, not be aware of time. Like I know like my husband would sometimes ask me, how long is that going to take you? And I would say like 15 minutes and then. Okay. So like an hour and I would look at him like, are you crazy? And then like, sure enough above almost an hour later, he's like, you ready? I'm like, yeah. I was about to finish. I'm like, how long has that been? And he's like an hour and I'm like, oh, okay.

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: I'm definitely not fantastic. I feel like the whole concept of time, it's very a variant, but I feel like that's one of the things I've gotten to know about me over the years. And so like, if I know, I need to say leave to be somewhere at nine 30, I have to tell myself nine 15, because then I will leave by nine 30.

Whereas that always used to be an issue. And it's hard because I get very stressed if I'm late. I don't like being late, so it's just, it's a lot of pressure, but certainly with tasks too, you know, I sometimes depending on the medicine does help a lot, but I can do the one task I set my mind to most times though, like if I want to, you know, put away something, you know, put a, hang up a code or something, I'll pick up that code.

That's probably lying on the floor from one of the kids and then keep walking and be like, oh, I need to put this away too. And oh yeah, I was going to do that. And so that one task that could have taken 30 seconds. Usually it takes more, my hands are usually full by the end of it, but certainly it, uh, it takes a little longer.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: So one of the things that I learned, I actually, this past year, I, I got more curious and I invested in an ADHD coach myself so that I could understand what other strategies. And one of the things that they pointed out to me was that people with ADHD, we tell you the time that it's gonna take us to complete the task, but we do not factor.

Kind of like the pre-task and the com and the post task. And so we only look at like the middle, like if you're looking at a recipe, like we don't tell you, oh, I need to go gather all the ingredients. And then I got, gotta clean up the ingredients. And like, to us, we just tell you like the middle, like, if we somehow magically all the ingredients came and somehow magically everything after whatever you were going to do.

Magically taken care of. And so, so now having that awareness and having that explained to me, it's a lot easier now, because then now I can give almost a little better estimate, but still not quite, but it's still a lot better. And now I'm aware of it. And now I've actually used timers and different things to give me like an external cue.

I say this because a lot of people think, oh my God, like, how do they stay? So calm as a , you know, as a cucumber, if there's like an emergency going on. And it's because for us, there's only two times like now and not now. Right. And so, so if it's like, now it doesn't matter. It was just like, what was like five minutes ago. Right. Even though everybody's freaking out, you're just like, oh, it's okay. And that's also why we can't take. So long and aware of how long it's. So it's so good to have that external queue. And sometimes, like you said, it could be a husband or a friend just calling you to make sure like you completed a task or whatever you had set out to do right now.

Another thing that they also taught me, which you might want to implement if you're not doing is, the five minute pickup. And so it's supposed to be a fun way. Everybody gets involved. Like your husband, your kids, literally just for five minutes, like you put the timer and like everybody tackles like a part.

So like maybe somebody will put away the dishes or somebody will pick up the shoes or whatever, just for five minutes. And you do that every day. And if there's like three or four people, you know, That's 20 minutes, times seven and ends up saving you like two or three hours of your week, which is five minutes.

So yeah. And so it can make, it can be helpful. Like you just said, you picked up one thing, they should have been 30 seconds and somehow you ended up everywhere else. Right? Like

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Exactly. And we try to do that, you know, each day, especially. With having the kids and the dog and the cat and all of our other furry feathered kids.

And it makes a big difference, Trying to work with my son too, on that. My daughter's a little young she's three, but, but with my six-year-old and each night, like the playroom or, or his, his things that are out or getting his bag ready, or, you know, doing those types of things that that can be helpful. And I got to say too, I have a few different apps on my phone, but to do list apps and, and reminder ones and things like that too, which if I know that there's tasks I need to do, I set a time for it.

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: And I have it remind me and remind me so that I make sure that I get it done at that time, that I know will be clear that it'll work for me. And so I don't forget, or don't stress out about knowing I have this to do. And, um, and that's made a lot of differences as well.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah, that's very helpful that you understand, again, that you understand yourself and you're not judging yourself, but you are just becoming aware of how can I enhance what I need to do and make sure I have a way to try to do it, you know?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Exactly.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: So do you think reflecting back, is there any specific, you think ADHD characteristics that has, has been so helpful in your success and becoming a physician? You think

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: I, you know, I don't know if it's the part with ADHD diagnosis. And myself, or just the years of struggling with it and, you know, trying to do the best I could and not wanting to give up and that trait stuck. But I definitely, you know, I don't want to give up on, on anything. I pushed myself and me to complete it and me to succeed, show myself, you know, sometimes that I can or know.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: I guess what I'm asking you is like, do you think, like, as a physician, maybe sometimes you're more like intuitive or if like maybe you think outside the box a little bit, or if you tend to be like flexible and on your feet, like, you know, sometimes ADHD can give us lots of different gifts.

Like we tend to be, uh, a little bit more daring, a little bit more impulsive. So times, you know, a little bit more spontaneous, right. Also.

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Yes, definitely all of that.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: And I think you mentioned, to me, not, not now, but the you're going to go camping. Right? You get outdoors. Yeah.

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Oh yeah. Yeah. We, we definitely love to stay active and, and do different things as a family.

And, so we're going camping this coming week. And, very fortunately I have off on Thursdays at the moment. And so I'm trying, especially during the summertime. each week do something with, uh, with one of the kids and where we get out together and they're active and get to spend that time. And we certainly keep busy, you know, and coaching my son's baseball and he does Karate and Cub Scouts. My daughter does dance and I do that with her and, you know, always busy, but it's a lot of fun too.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. That's a little bit the beauty of it, like learning to do the things that are passionable for us. And that keep us you know, aligned with their family and with our goals. Do you have any big goals or anything that you're thinking the next five years that you're striving for either like with your family to travel somewhere or just with your practice or, or you're still thinking about those things

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Still thinking about those are good amount, always the family time and is really important to me and spending time with them, what we can do together and learn, and being there for them.

Is number one for sure. And similarly with my, with my patients, my kiddos in their families and supporting them and seeing how they all grow and change and succeed.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Do you work inpatient or outpatient or both?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Outpatient

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Okay, perfect.

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: I love that. A continuity idea and seeing them grow. Yeah.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: So if our listeners wanted to get in touch with you and ask you some questions, or just send you a hello, this was an amazing episode. How can they get in contact with you?

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Probably the best way. I guess, it would be an email to start with.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Sure.

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer:  So the email had given you the DavisBrittany2@yahoo.com. It's a D A V I S B R I T T A N Y, the number two, at, yahoo.com. And, yeah, I'd be happy to chat or experiences or questions or anything. Yeah.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Awesome. Well, Brittany, Dr. Brittany, it was such a pleasure meeting you and learning about how you became diagnosed and how you have been able to take your own experiences and enrich the lives of everybody else around you. And likewise be an advocate for your patients and for your own family too. Continue striving and continue living a fulfilling life that we're able to share or gifts of ADHD with the world.

Thank you so much for coming today and to our listeners. Thank you for tuning in and please come join us next week as we continue to talking to the amazing physicians with ADHD.

Dr. Brittany Davis-Schaffer: Thank you so much again for having me. Appreciate it. Thank you.

 

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh:  As someone who understands that time is your most valuable asset, I am so honored that you have shared your time with me. Please click the subscribe. And join my Facebook Group: Beyond ADHD A Physician's Perspective so that you never miss an opportunity to create time at will. Do share this podcast with your friends. So they too can learn to live life and stay in their own lane.