Beyond ADHD A Physicians Perspective Ep 8 with Dr. Elisa Chiang (Ophthalmologist, Oculoplastic Surgeon, Life Coach Specializing in Money Mindset)

Elisa Chiang is an Ophthalmologist, Oculoplastic surgeon and Life Coach. Elisa primarily works with physicians to master their money mindset so they can build wealth and practice medicine on their own terms.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: I think there's different levels of budgeting for some people having a strict budget really stresses them out. And I don't know that you have to have a really strict budget. I think you do have to have a sense of what you're spending and where your money is going.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Hi, welcome to beyond ADHD, A Pysician's Perspective podcast. I am your host, Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh. I'm a family medicine doc, with ADHD, practicing in a rural setting in Texas. I am a mother to two very energetic toddlers for three and four years of age.

 

And in the past year, I have undergone radical transformation after discovery, ADHD coaching, and life-coaching. For the past decade, my typical day consisted of having 300 charts, backlog, a graveyard of unfinished. And a lack of time awareness. I didn't realize that I was not filling my own cup. I was running on fumes the last year I figured out the secret; learn to stay in your lane. So now my mission is to help others develop systems that tap into their zone of genius. So they too can reclaim their personal lives back. Like I have.

 

Good evening, I am so excited today to talk to Dr. Elisa Chiang, is an Ophthalmologist Oculoplastic surgeon and life coach. Dr. Chiang primarily works with physicians to master their money mindset so that they can build their wealth and they can practice medicine on their own terms. So today you all got to pay attention because this is going to really change your life..

Dr. Elisa Chiang: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Can you tell us a little bit about how you started this and money mindset? How did that come about?

Dr. Elisa Chiang: You know, so in the beginning of. Yeah, everyone. When they're starting to love, coach business tries to think about like, well, who are my people and what can I specifically do to serve my people?

And so being a physician, you know, it's natural to want to coach other physicians because that's, you know, our people. And one of the places where, I have a lot more, you know, knowledge and just, experience is with. Investing and partially with money mindset. And I have to admit it's not because I've had to overcome a lot of, money mindset issues, but I, I guess was blessed with parents who actually talked about money and you know, not everything.

It's not like it was a perfect money upbringing, but. My parents, when I was young, like, you know, money was discussed in the household. When we got allowance, it was very specifically to kind of teach us how to manage money. When we want to kind of bigger ticket items like a bicycle, we actually would go 50 50 with our parents.

So we understood the value of money, the bio of working for something that we wanted and how much things like actually. And so that continued, you know, in college, like there was always talk about like saving for college and how much, , you know, college cost. And then when we're in college, like actually managing our money, like my sister and I literally had like independently, I don't even think it's like, my parents told us this, but somehow we just independently like had spreadsheets where we actually put all of our spending and like, yeah, like who does that?

But like, literally she did it. I did it. It's not like. It's not like we were ever told to do it, but somehow it just came up like, well, we should be tracking everything we're spending and making sure that like, it falls in, you know, the budget that we have so that, you know, we can, you know, I mean, freshman year we were all on meal plans, but after freshman year we were no longer on meal plans and we had kind of a budget.

And so we wanted to make sure that. Yeah, we had food.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: That's amazing. You know, I remember I'm the oldest of my family and I'm the first one to go to college and education was always like something that my parents were like, this is how you're going to get ahead. This is how you're going to have money security.

Right. But I remember like, I would always, because we didn't have excess money. So to say, like, I got scholarships and I was also on financial aid. I remember I was choosing like the biggest loan, like not knowing that eventually I was going to have to pay it back. Right. And so I would always choose the biggest loan and like, Use it to go on vacations and like all this other stuff, instead of being mindful.

Oh, I should be careful. But it was, it was silly because I remember always looking to see if I could find like a cheap book, because those were expensive. They were like $500 or something crazy. Right. But at the same time, I wasn't really careful with buying all these clothes and purses because I was like, oh yeah, I'll pay it back.

Eventually. I wish somebody would have told me, like, you know, if you don't need all that money, that all that exess loans, like don't take out that, all that excess loan do you know? And so, yeah, it's interesting. Sometimes realize that yes, while money can help us, it can also get us into trouble.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yes, it certainly can. And I definitely saw, you know, there was a reason why credit card companies always have booths at college campuses to get people, to sign up for their credit cards. Right.

[00:05:12] Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah, exactly. So I have ADHD and I tend to have some type of limiting beliefs. Something like money is too hard or something like, I don't know how to manage it.

I don't know where to invest or maybe I should just let my husband take care of that. Like, why do you think those are things that we shouldn't just wait for others to manage? Like why do you think it's important for us to try to understand like how much money comes in or where to save or all that.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Because honestly, no, one's going to care about your financial security more than you yourself care for. Right. Everyone's out to get money and you know, people in the financial industry, they want you to feel like it's hard so that you give them their money. That's how they make money. Uh, most financial advisors are really just glorified salesmen, and they're not doing what's best for you. And if you don't know what's best for you, then.

I mean, maybe yourselves like can handle it, but you don't ever actually want to be in a position where your spouse is. The only person is the person handling all your finances. Know, I don't want to have to cite the divorce statistics, but I mean, it's really high. Right. And you may be in love with. It might be great, but literally first marriages are 50% and in divorce and with each subsequent marriage, it's a higher percentage.

And of course, we don't want to go into marriage thinking about that, but there is a point at some point where you may not be with that spouse anymore, and it may not even be divorced. Right. I mean, we're physicians. We see young people, you know, die. Like, you know, like I said, you don't want to think about that, but you want to be in a position where if your spouse dies, that you can still manage the household finances and if your spouse dies, I mean, like that's going to be even more pressure financially in general.

 And the thing is, I think a lot of physicians feel that. Well, not just physicians so that people in general feel like money is hard, but I can say that if you got through medical school, you can learn personal finance, right? Most people who are out there in the personal finance world. I mean, yes, they probably graduated from college, but not even necessarily that, right.

I mean, we know so much. More, we have, we have all the brain power that's needed. The difference I think is that we forget how much training. We went through to learn medicine. And we all went through four years of med school, a minimum of three years of residency. A lot of us did fellowship. I mean that's years and years of training where we learn medical language and medical jargon.

How many of, I mean, there are lots of physicians. Who've never read one financial book, right? So the financial world has its own jargon. It has its own language. And if you don't spend any time learning that jargon and language, it's not going to make sense. So like, if you go to France and you don't know any French, like nothing.

There, right. You go to Spain and you don't know Spanish. Nothing makes sense. There all you go to the talk to financial people and you don't know the financial language, then nothing makes sense. So you think you're stupid, but you're not, you just don't know the language. Once you learn the language, it's actually really simple.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Is there like one book that like you think would like be the first starting step that somebody might want to at least dive into?

Dr. Elisa Chiang: So there are a lot of bait financial books. I think for physicians, you know, the white coat investor and the physician philosopher both have on their books on personal finance.

And so if you are a physician, I think that is a good place to start because we, as physicians are generally a little different than the rest of the population in the sense that we typically have these very large loans. And while we do make a really great income, we went through a long time for, we weren't actually making that much money.

And then. Start making a lot of money. And, but when we start making a lot of, we may still have a lot of those loans. So that's not, you know, the normal situation for, a lot of other professions. I mean, law, I think might be an, a similar situation dentists. But other than that, people are spending so much money in professional school.

Yeah, we're just kind of in different situation and that does affect what we're going to do with our finances. Right? Because now some of us started having children and med school or residency and, you know, may have even had to pay for help, like nannies when really we didn't have the financial ability necessarily pay for it.

But when you're working 80 hours a week, like, what are you going to do? Right.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah, exactly. And, and do you think it's important to have a budget, like to have budget enough for like the nanny, like you're saying, or for like a basic stuff, right. Like paying your car or paying your rent or making sure you're not on the negative every time with the credit cards and stuff.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yeah, I think there's different levels of budgeting for some people having a strict budget really stresses them out. And I don't know that you have to have a really strict budget. I think you do have to have a sense of what you're spending and where your money is going. So you don't necessarily have to say like, okay, I am only spending.

$600 in groceries a month. And then if you spend 701 month, then you freak out, right? Because it's going to fluctuate. There might be, you know, a month that's 400 months, that's 800, you know, if you know, Thanksgiving and Christmas, 10, you know, to have some bigger meals, potentially involved or family coming over for meals, there might be some months where you travel more.

So. You also have to look at, you know, your personal mindset, if having a specific number for a budget isn't going to work for you, then you may just want to, kind of just have a sense of like, okay, how much am I spending? So in general, you want to have about 50% of your spending. Fixed spending. So that's going to be things like your rent or mortgage, right?

That's the same every month. And then about 20% to be your fluctuating spending, the things that really, you can kind of control the difference. And then that last 30% you actually want to put towards investing in growing your wealth and retirement.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Perfect. And then can you tell me a little bit how you are making an impact with how you're coaching physicians to, understand their mindset with money.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yeah, so. I'm not a financial advisor, you know, I can certainly help people, with, how to think about investing and how much to put in different places. But what I've, I've worked with some clients where, you know, they've gone to a financial investor, they got their financial plan, but they don't understand it, or they don't have the mindset to follow it, or even.

Just doing simple things, like getting their disability insurance in place like own occupation, disability insurance is one of the most important things for a physician to have because one of our most important assets after we've done all this training is our ability to earn income. And you know, that own occupation, disability insurance.

I mean, even if you go to a non-clinical position that still covers yourability to bring in income, right? It covers anything. Prior you are making money from the value you're putting out in the world.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: And, and where do you think they should, do you think they should have gotten it as a resident or do you think even now, if they're in their fifties, they should still go and do it. If they haven't done.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Unless you are financially independent, you should have own occupation, disability insurance, and yes. I do think you should get a residency because you want to get it before you have any health issue that might prevent you from getting it now also as a resident or potentially as a fellow, some of hospitals actually have special, arrangements with different insurance companies so that you can get a own occupation, disability, insurance, potentially without medical coverage.

That actually saved me. So I, got diagnosed with a medical condition in medical school where it made it where I can not get, I mean, I could get a own occupation, disability insurance, but it would only pay out a max of five years, which obviously is not ideal because there is a possibility that, of getting disabled and having it last longer than five years.

And so luckily when I was a resident, the last year you're in training, You could get an own occupation, disability insurance plan through standard, which is one of the five big companies that do a good own occupation, disability plans without a medical exam. And so I know like that is the best plan I'll ever be able to have and not switching out that plan for anything.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Awesome. Well, I am guilty that I don't have one and I'm going to look it up after, after today to make sure that I get that in place.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yeah, definitely. I mean, any, any physician, and even like my husband's a teacher, he has disability insurance, you know? Yes. Could I cover him if he knows I'm working or got disabled?

I could. Honestly, I went part-time recently. And so his income does really contribute to our household this point.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. And can you tell me, like, what you like to do? Like how do you feel that you're making a difference in the world lights you up?

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Well, the number one thing I love doing is traveling, especially international traveling, which, 2020 is the first year of my adult life, that I did not leave the country or get on a plane.

I did get on a plane in 2021, but it was only domestic. And so I'm hoping that 2022, I can finally go somewhere outside the country, even if it's just Canada, because frankly, you know, Canadian U S border has even been closed for less, much of this pandemic

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: I know you from, other places and I know you love to travel, but could you share where you've been?

Dr. Elisa Chiang: You? So I've been to over 40 countries and six continents. I actually did have plans to go to Antarctica December, 2020 that obviously didn't happen in the end. I also, had a scheduled vacation to Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, and, Slovenia. In June of 2020. So I'm really hoping to build, to do that trip at some point.

But yes, I've traveled. Most of Europe, traveled through Asia through China, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia. I've been to Australia, not yet been to New Zealand, really like to go there. Iceland is also

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Did you do this you while you were in college or like in med school, or like in like after you done or a little bit of all throughout.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yeah, all throughout. So, and you know, this is one things about money is that I was doing this in. So I did do it. I'm a PhD program. So I had eight years, the MSTP program and I did this during medical school and residency and graduate school. Like I do remember. I wanted to go to Ecuador. I actually, my best friend from high school, was in Ecuador.

She was working at a nonprofit. And so I was trying to find other men's another med school who might want to, you know, come on the trip. And I remember people like, oh, I can't go there. That'd be so expensive. I'm like, well, I know the plane ticket gets a little expensive, but once you get there, it's like super cheap.

And the same person I was talking to ended up going to Vail for vacation to go skiing. And I was like, that vacation is definitely more expensive than when I went to Ecuador. I did go to Ecuador. I just didn't go with anyone else in med school, but I mean, you can enjoy the world and, you know, and have it be affordable.

I mean, even Europe, I did do some hostels, but actually I'm at my husband pretty young. I'm actually met him when I was a senior in high school and he was, a first year in college. So, because in hostels you tend to have either a, you know, a male or boys room and a female and girl's room.

We did that once and then we're like, you know what? We can spend a little bit more to just get a two-star. But yeah, I mean, really you can travel on a budget and there are lots of young people traveling, you know, across the world. You know, you're not going to stay in five star hotels, but you can stay in really comfortable, you know, situations.

And the experience is really what you're going to carry home with you, right? Like you don't need to, I mean, certainly buying things and having, souvenirs can some people happiness, but typically, stuff like that, you know, five, 10 years later to like listen to trash.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. Like what you remember are the pictures. Right. And you remember like the food or the friendship you had over, and sometimes you do hang out with those people later on.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yeah, definitely. And the food. Definitely. I remember the food. There are definitely places in the world. I'm like, man, I want to go back there just to eat.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Exactly. Yes. Yes. So I'm like, I love to travel and we all have our beliefs about money. Right. But when you understand. That money can get you experiences or something that you value that is more than just the cash, right? Or the money that you're thinking, that it allows you to be more of who you are, right? Like it's like an energy exchange, at least in my eyes.

And so it allows you to grow as you go and explore other countries and other cultures and other foods. Oh my God. And the music, of course, you cannot forget the music and all those different places. And, and I think it really. Allows you to realize that, you know, life's too short and yes, of course you can spend $5,000 on a purse, but you're not, to me.

It's not going to be the same as spending $5,000 in that two week vacation, like somewhere in Costa Rica or Ecuador. Thailand or, you know, somewhere where you're like, oh my God, I just got a $7 massage. It was amazing. Right. So I don't know, it feels like you've got a bargain, but at the same time, it's the experience.

Of course I would pay $70 for that massage, but it's the experience of like the culture. So I think. Knowing how to use money to allow you to become more of who you are is so important. And if you don't know how to come talk to Elisa here.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yeah. So I loved how you talked about like spending for your values are because I think that is really, the key is spending for your values are, and not for other people's values are right.

Because if you are having the Dr. House or the doctor car, and you don't really actually care about cars and. The smaller house, like, what are you giving up? Are you giving up? Like, you know, that vacation in Costa Rica are you, where you can have a great experience and really have memories that you cherish and spend that time with your family and, you know, get that experience to your children.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yes. So important. And like you said, like, Your traditions are your tradition. So of course, right before COVID we had just said, okay, for Christmas, we're not going to buy each other any more gifts like me and my family said, we're just going to spend Christmas, like traveling somewhere. And of course, before that happened, like, we went to Disneyland and that's it.

And then of course it's January that we went for Christmas. And then of course, January happens. Here we are 2020 that Nimbix. So we didn't get to really do that afterwards. But as things slowed down, that's definitely something that we're looking forward to doing, having the experience. And in fact, like for my, for my sister's birthday, like I gave her the experience of buying her a like three sessions with a declutter coach, I think is like, better than me sending her something she might not like, and this is something she can do the experiences of something else.

Right. So, investment in yourself. And of course she told me that was what she wanted and I just didn't put it on her. Right. But this is something that she said that it would be amazing to learn, to have her own systems of things. Feeling like she wasn't doing it. Right. And, and sometimes that's the most courageous thing, right.

To ask for help when you feel like you almost got it, but you don't have it quite, or it just seems too complicated. Why don't go talk to an expert so they can at least advise you, this is their zone of genius. Why not go talk to them and save yourself the hassle? Yes. Probably read all those financial books, but who has all that time, if that's not your zone.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: It's true. I mean, to some extent, you know, you do want to do like yourself education, but other than the others extent, if you don't work on the mindset part. You're not going to have the motivation to actually even finish the books. Right? Know, it all comes down to your why and, you know, for a lot of people, their, why is, really wanting to have a better life.

But when you think about. Being financially independent, which means that your investments are able to pay for your basic expenses. Now, what freedom does that give you? Right. If you're in a job where you really feel tied to that paycheck and you wish you could leave where you wish you could cut down the hours, but you can't do it because of the money.

Well, what freedom would you have if you did actually know that the money that you've invested can actually be enough to support you. And, and that might mean, you know, maybe not support you with. You know, every luxury that you're currently used to, but that freedom of being able to cut back, maybe, well worth giving up that, you know, Louis Vuitton purse.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Exactly. Thank you. So what is one thing that you would share with our listeners today? Like one nugget.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yeah. So anyone can learn how to manage your finances. It is not hard. You just have to learn a little bit of the language and it just, it does take a little time and then a little investment. But if you can just get over that money mindset and really, start living a life of abundance in it.

So it's just like with weight loss, right. We all know how to lose weight to some extent, but you know how to do it without. In a way so that you keep the weight off and, you know, you're happy with where you are. So it's the same thing with money, right? Like, and, you know, initially you may feel levels of discomfort as you're trying to learn how to invest.

And when you make those first few investments or, or it may be, you know, learning to cut back on some of your expenses and really looking at, you know, what do you value? Where do you really want to spend your money? But once you get to that new place with that new mindset, You know, you can really be in a much better place where you're financially secure and able to, you know, do what you want when it comes to your job and working.

And I think it's a total game changer in that.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. So the thing is, like you said, how do you eat the whole elephant one bite at a time, right? You can't just do it all at once, especially when you don't have that stamina. Right. But when you start trying that and you keep going and then you get help, then you might actually get somewhere.

Right. So tell us, how can our listeners find you? Cause I know they're gonna come and they're gonna say, Hey, help me get that financial freedom that you talked about.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: Yeah. So my website is www.growyourwealthymindset.com. You can sign up for a free consultation call with me, right on the first page. And you can also follow me on Facebook and Instagram.

My Instagram handle is grow your wealthy mindset and on Facebook, you really is probably easiest. Just look me up. E L I S A ELisa, last name C H I A N G. Chiang.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Thank you so much. So you heard it here. Get financial freedom.

Dr. Elisa Chiang: I love to help you get there.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: As someone who understands that time is your most valuable asset, I am so honored that you have shared your time with me. Please click the subscribe. And join my Facebook Group: Beyond ADHD A Physician's Perspective so that you never miss an opportunity to create time at will. Do share this podcast with your friends. So they too can learn to live life and stay in their own lane.

 

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